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Thirteen Years Later

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Posted

Just seen this ep. And I have no idea what to say about it except that now I know where the "Two Severed Thumbs" comes from.

Apart from that ...

Well, except I got the feeling during the convo between Frank and Emma in the hotel room (when Frank is telling Emma to stay and watch the tube) that they played that scene just a little too straight, as in: they were both either too pissed off by the ep or just this far from corpsing.

Apart from that ...

Could some kind person please say something insightful and erudite about this episode? I'll be keeping this episode amongst my collection - but that's because I'm a completist.

I'd really like to see something more in this episode that I'm able to so far, because I have to say that so far this is the worst episode of MM ever. I'd like to think it's because I've missed something significant rather than it being an absolute clunker.

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Posted

You take a KISS cameo  :tongue: , add the shower seen from Psycho :suspect: , sprinkle a hint of Friday the 13th  :angry: , and a dash of Halloween :ghostface: , and you have the receipe for a successful episode of Millennium right? Not quite, but at least Frank does save the day. :grin2:

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Posted

Aaahhh, I hate this episode. I can't believe I can say that about Millennium but I have to be honest.

What the hell were they thinking? :eyes:  :angry:

Perhaps Brian "Dix" has some background info to shed some light on it.

It's excruciating to watch.  :cry:

Gra.

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Posted

Well, I didn't think it was as bad as all that.  I also can't say I enjoyed it in the least, LOL, but I didn't think it was quite that bad.  But then, I'm not a S3 fan on the whole.   :blush:   I think it had a few good episodes, but on the whole, not.  This one ranks in my "better than some, worse than a LOT" category, meaning it's worth having above a few others.  But not that many.

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Posted

........SEEING AS THOUGH S3 IS MY FAV SEASON-(WITH S1 NOW IN A VIRTUAL TIE)-IT MAY COME AS A SURPRISE TO SOME THAT 2 OF MM's WORST EPS FOR ME WERE IN S3. in a tie for most ridiculous down right awful ep with "the time is now" is........"human essance" with "....thirteen years later" a close 2nd place. the only other ep in S3 that did not do much for me was "omerta" and not because it was not a cute story but because of marks snow's one and only HORRIFIC episode score. the music in that ep is akin to being drilled in a cavity laden tooth with no novacaine :gaba:  :cry:

                                               ~se7en :ouro:

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Posted

I also absolutely HATED Human Essence.  And that's really strong for me, for a fave show of mine.  I'm generally pretty forgiving (what can I say, it's always hard for the ones you love to go wrong).  But I loved Omerta... I cried after it the first few times I saw it, and it still chokes me up a little at the end (even if the end does confuse me).  And every time I see Eddie anywhere, I wanna yell out "EDDIE!" (in that Lhasa\Rose accent, of course).  As a matter of fact, I recently saw "Chicago" with a dance class and he's in the preview for "A View From the Top" (which didn't look at all promising, especially for Gwyneth Paltrow's steadily worsening career moves).  But I nearly embarrassed myself with my surprise on seeing him... lucky it was dark and no one saw me jump.  It's a typical response, however, when I see one of my actors.  Imagine how bad it was when I saw "The Green Mile" w\o knowing Doug Hutchison was in it...

I guess Omerta has its low points, but I liked it.  And in comparison with a lot of other episodes, it's on my good list.  Luckily, one of the few that I got on tape while it was on FX...

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Posted

Some brief responses:

toymall:

I much prefer your version of the ep - made me giggle.  :laugh:

Gra:

Well, now at least I know it isn't just me. As for what they were thinking - perhaps they were just trying to be funny - didn't work for me, though.

se7enand1:

I'm interested in your top 3 worst eps. As far as The Time is Now is concernced, what completely ruined it for me was the "Lara Means going insane" bit - it was so embarrassing I had to fast-forward throgh that.

I haven't seen Human Essence yet - at least I don't think so - from the synopsis, the first scene seems familiar but maybe I'm confusing it with an X-File episode. I'll be able to see the ep soon - it's the next but one due to be posted to the binaries group - right after Omerta!

Laura:

I'm not looking forward to Human Essence - the synopsis reads all wrong for a MM episode. I'll be interested to watch Omerta again - I saw it a while back when it was aired on TV and I recall I enjoyed it. But this time I'll focus on the music and I'll be thinking of se7enand1's description. Ouch! Thankfully my next dental appointment isn't until June ...

Finally:

I started wondering about the writers/directors of these eps, so did a quick check:

305 Thirteen Years Later - Michael R Perry/Thomas J Wright

308 Omerta - Michael R Perry/Ken Fink

309 Human Essence - Michael Duggan/Thomas J Wright

Michael R Perry wrote four season 3 eps (also Collateral Damage and Nostalgia). There's also a writing credit for Michael Perry (no middle initial) for season 2 The Mikado. I haven't watched his last two eps yet. What are the views about his writing? Or, if there's discussion about individual writers/directors, is there a better area to discuss these? (I'd like to read about people's views about Thomas J Wright, for example. And I'd also like to know more about Michael Duggan's involvement.)

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Posted

Well, I didn't think it was as bad as all that.

Laura, you're right I was over reacting there :blush: ... I didn't enjoy the episode at all though. It was perhaps too X-Filesy for a Millennium episode for me...

In fact it may have made quite a good X-Files episode.

For me it just wasn't Frank and The Group.

Regards,

Graham.

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Posted

That's true... with some alterations, it could've been a good XF.  I also think that Human Essence could've fared better as an XF, even though I still would've hated it, I'm sure.  XF was the monstery one, with MM the more philosophical... but I enjoyed the deeper XF episodes like "The Field Where I Died" more than more X-Philes did (they wanted Mulder and Scully to be soul mates, not Mulder and Melissa Ridell-Ephesian, gag me -- darned Shippers   :tongue: ).  Guess each show could've fared better to have stuck more with what it did best -- imagine where some XF storylines could've gone if given a MM treatment.  And then there never would've been the need for them to stoop to such atrocities as "Human Essence"!

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Posted

I liked this episode, although I was kind of dissapointed that it didn't compare to the year before's "The Curse of Frank Black." I know it isn't even in the same field but when watching it I couldn't help but compare the two. The Frank jokes and its "movies kill" theme make it far better than the worst episode. Far from it. It seems a little flawed but works for me. "Murder is dark, it's depressing-" To which Frank interupts "Yes it is." Or how about Frank giving pyschological anaylisis' on the horror movie killers? It is pretty good.

And I will have to agree that "Human Essence" is the worst MM ever. "Omerta" is very strange but I really liked it. Or maybe it was the Frank/Jordan stuff that I really conected with. I did like the Frank/Eddie conversations, though too. "There are worse things than death."

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Posted

And I will have to agree that "Human Essence" is the worst MM ever.

"A Single Blade of Grass" is probably my least favourite, with "Jose Chung" and "Somehow the devil got behind me" following close behind.

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Posted

Some brief responses:

Gra:

Well, now at least I know it isn't just me. As for what they were thinking - perhaps they were just trying to be funny - didn't work for me, though.

I have to say there were some elements of this episode that I thought interesting. It was certainly the least favourite of mine though.

Gra.

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Posted

I just have one question. What would you have thought back in 1996 if KISS suddenly appeared in a season 1 episode?

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Posted

pibbsneaker,

In response to seeing KISS in Season One, I would gave gone, in a voice very much like Frank Black: "What the hell was that?!"

-- The Stalker

"I smell the blood and the era of prominent madmen."

                                           -- W.H. Auden (Gehenna)

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Posted (edited)

I haven't seen a lot of "...Thirteen Years Later", only the teaser which was very effective. I know of the various horror movie references in it. When having a look at it after I'd taped it off Sci-fi I was looking at the bit towards the end when there appear to be two Frank Blacks.

I watched the very last scene in the prison with the murderer talking in a strange voice. It was what was mentioned at the start of the thread : "two thumbs". But it sounded like "two tumbs fresh" quote from a UK advert for tea bags! His face reminded me of the actor who played Donnie Pfaster in XF episodes "Irresistible" and "Orison".

So of what I've seen so far I like the look of the episode but not that last scene. Dosen't look right.

I've seen a cast promo pic of Lance Henriksen sitting in the middle of a photo with KISS in make-up, along with an episode still of Frank standing in a film studio with cast members/extras in Frankenstein character costumes and Emma Hollis going down some stairs in a red-lit part of the studio holding her gun.

Edited by WaveCrest

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Posted (edited)

I strongly dislike this episode as well. I thought it was continuing the trend of (in my opinion) dumbing down the series to appeal to a wider audience. Both Frank and Emma are both way out of character, and the campy overacting is outrageous. I know it was intended, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. And the cameo by KISS was just over-the-top. Just like that music video stuck in the middle of "The Time Is Now". "... Thirteen Years Later" is just another episode I don't like stuck in the middle of 6 episodes I don't like at the beginning of Season 3. "Human Essence" is my least favorite episode as well.

PS. The only part I really enjoyed in "...Thirteen Years Later" was Frank profiling the killers in the movies, and the killer's Frank impersonation.

PPS. I thought "Omerta" was an OK episode, burdened greatly by the absolutely putrid score. Sorry for the harsh opinion, but it's just grating.

Edited by chrisnu

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Posted

I strongly dislike this episode as well. I thought it was continuing the trend of (in my opinion) dumbing down the series to appeal to a wider audience. Both Frank and Emma are both way out of character, and the campy overacting is outrageous. I know it was intended, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. And the cameo by KISS was just over-the-top. Just like that music video stuck in the middle of "The Time Is Now". "... Thirteen Years Later" is just another episode I don't like stuck in the middle of 6 episodes I don't like at the beginning of Season 3. "Human Essence" is my least favorite episode as well.

PS. The only part I really enjoyed in "...Thirteen Years Later" was Frank profiling the killers in the movies, and the killer's Frank impersonation.

PPS. I thought "Omerta" was an OK episode, burdened greatly by the absolutely putrid score. Sorry for the harsh opinion, but it's just grating.

..you are not the only one who feels the music in omerta was absolutely horrid. definately a low point for the great Mark Snow. -(it sounded like he hired those high pitched poodles that did the original star trek theme..........except that i like the original star trek theme!)

.....HARSH and proud! :wink:

se7en :ouro:

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Posted

I think that the campiness, out-of-characterness, and over-the-topness in "...Thirteen Years Later" was intended, and it was to make fun of the entire genre of horror films, because that's how they are. My sister's a huge horror movie fan in that she likes to watch them and make fun of them, so I see it as being like that. I mean, in the movie "Valentine", a character get suffocated, drowned, drilled, and electrocuted to death. If that's not over-the-top, I don't know what is.

And as for the "Omerta" score -- hey, I liked it! I love that episode. It's one of the few I actually have on tape (I'd love to have all of them if I could, but as it is almost all that I own are the ones I love the most).

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Posted

And to think Lance did the horrid movie Scream 3 (it really was a bad movie compared to the first two which have already started to falter with age).

Be Seeing You,

David Blackwell

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Posted

BEER----> Sad. And it doesn't look good for AvP. Just read a review in our local paper. Not even a mention of Lance. The reviewer did not have good words for Paul.

BELCH

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Posted

BEER---> Just watched this episode again. All I can say is that is was a fun episode but forgettable. 'This case is going to drive me insane for a third time'.

Maybe it's ironic, but I had the last response to this episode 7 years ago. I guess it is forgettable.

BELCH

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Posted

I have a greater appreciation for this episode given Michael R Perry's insights into it. They were literally given a set of conditions (i.e. you must write an episode involving Kiss, all of them must have a speaking part, it has to be a Halloween episode and so on) and they were left to cobble something together out of all these disparate ideas dictated by the network. Nobody wanted to write it, Lance did want Kiss to be in it and the Millennium crew fought hard to get the network to change its mind. I think Perry did a very consummate job considering he was handed the episode and literally told to write it.

I think that Perry's long enthusiasm for cult horror films made him the perfect choice to salvage something from the Fox dictated mandate, had anyone else had a go I shudder to think what the outcome would have been.

Not my favourite by a long, long way but better than it could have been I think.

Eth

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Posted

I think it also helps if you have a historical context of when TYL was made. The horror genre was being revitalized via the first Scream film, and through that film a new generation was becoming conscious not only of horror as a genre, but of the 80s slasher films that Scream lampooned. Some of those same franchises were being brought back such as with Halloween H20. Horror movies in which the fourth wall was a little flimsy were prolific. I think TYL blended in well with those trends. True, it's not as memorable as the offbeat season 2 episodes Jose and Somehow Satan, but still fun in its own way. Much of it seemed to have sprouted from the seed planted in season 2 when Frank tried to profile the killer from the Black Christmas tape Roedecker gave him.

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Posted

And here's where my problems begin...

I didn't enjoy ...Thirteen Years Later-I absolutely LOVED it!!! As I've said before dark series' need some comedic relief at times and this episode came not long after the plane crash, Hollis' closure ep and so on. I just thought it was fantastic!!!

The actor playing Frank was great (I don't mean Lance I mean the in story actor). From starting out with a Hawaiian shirt, leather jacket, shades and a goatee, to losing the goatee, having a red jeep and green jacket-and even grey sideburns!!! And the identical pose on either side of the couch when they're pointing their guns cracked me up!!! And when Actor Frank goes to Hollis near the end and she can't tell it isn't Frank's voice but EVERYBODY else can? That was brilliant!

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Posted

It's not a Darrin Morgan script, which I think fans are used to with Millennium and the X Files, but I think it's still good. I was more of a Kiss fan than a horror genre fan, but I got the horror spoof motif.

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